How to really PU

OK, since I'm half asleep at 5am and in a rambly mood, you guys are getting privileged to the REAL way to PU.


You spot a chick you want. Now the most important thing is how you FACE her.

You roll up, and you don't face her UNTIL she is facing YOU. That means, if she is turned totally away from you, you literally TURN YOUR NECK ENTIRELY BACKWARDS while you talk, and ONLY turn when she turns.

Then, as she says stuff that she PERCEIVES as you being impressed by, you THEN turn to face her. This causes her to have the perception that:

1) You are not needy/desperate/lame.

2) She said something WORTH you staying.

Have you ever won some stupid contest for a cracker-jack prize or some shit, and went and claimed it??? Even though if you had already owned it, and forgot it at the store, you never would have gone to even pick it up cause its so LAME.. but still, since you WON it, you go pick it up??? That's what this is like.

Give her the impression that you're only staying to talk because SHE said something that interested you to stay. Again, do this by ONLY turning once she is turning FIRST.

The only exception is you can do little tests, like turning quickly towards her, to SEE if she'll BITE and turn herself.


Then, after you get that, THEN start mirroring her and all that shit. Mirroring is FANTASTIC for getting deep rapport.

Finally, when you phase shift, use very sexual body language.

The sequence in my "gear shifting" post was:

-C&F until she tries to get rapport with "what's your name" or some variant


-phase shift

So you turn away and make her TRY to get rapport with this cocky/funny guy, then you turn towards her normally, THEN when you phase shift you do the sexy body language (EC, triangular gazing, sidelong glances, lip licking, hair sifting, open palms, soft tonality, etc etc)

You want her SHIT TESTING you, so that you can use shit testing evasive measures to prove yourself to her, and get her TURNED ON.That's one of the main BENEFITS to doing QUALIFYING right off the gate. You're even better using the KISS GAME at the VERY START of the PU, just to set that FRAME.


If you have AI (approach invitation), then it is OK to use more direct body language, or even the "hi" opener.

On warm approaches, feel free to go into phase shift body language right away, if she's comfortable with it.


For non-club PU (my absolute expertise, although my club game is getting kinda tight non-club is still way better), experiment with PROJECTING VALUE in your opener. That means that what you do/say projects VALUE to the chick, right off the opener. Some things of value to chicks are:





-frame-setting (sets challenges right off the opener)



-role playing

FUN: "Hey, check out that kid on Santa's lap.. wow, remember when x,y,z childhood memories??"

IMAGINATIVE: "whoa, that is a NICE aquarium.. look at that.. OMG, we should totally hit up the bio-chem department, and get shrunk down like BARBIE AND KEN.. then we could swim around behind that coral right there.. see that.. and totally go on like an underwater adventure like in the Little Mermaid.. don't get any ideas though, Ken dolls do not come FULLY EQUIPPED" (this reverses the frame at the end as well as an added benefit)

FUNNY: (pick up the LAMEST CD in the store, like something totally ridiculous) "OMG.. OMG.. this CD is fucking A-W-E-S-O-M-E..... pause for effect while she is gauging if you're serious...... hahahhahahahah" (so you just break out laughing, but not too obnoxious.. laughter is CONTAGIOUS, so take advantage)

You can use the same formula with CAT FOOD in a grocery store, or WHATEVER.. Humour = stuff that doesn't go together.

INTRIGUING: "I just saw the most fascinating thing.. In this newspaper article (whatever, Jamie Lee Curtis story about her fatness or whatever)" (Ricki Lake even qualifies under this category, although I don't use it myself)

FRAME-SETTING: "damn.. I-AM-SICK of this cafeteria food.. do you know how to cook? no?? ok we're broken up then, I'm going to find a woman who can cook.. (while she cracks up, talk to another chick)... OK, so you can't cook.. well what else do you have going for you??? are you adventurous" (transition to Swingcat style qualifying)

Again, you're qualifying her right off the OPENER. This is very POWERFUL.. more than stupid "hi, I want to meet you"

OPINION: "do girls think that David Bowie is hot?" (better than "hi", because she actually ENJOYS giving her opinion on stupid shit like this)

KINO/DOMINANCE-ESTABLISHING: wack her with a magazine... tap her.. as she walks towards you, make funny faces, and if she returns them then pretend to punch her while you grab her around her waist and start walking with her "you're cuuuuute.. you'll make a nice new girlfriend I think.." (Zan style line).. Follow this with QUALIFYING "wait a sec though, can you cook" and you are MOTHERFUCKING IIIIIINNNNNN LIKE FLYYYYNN BABY!!!!

ROLEPLAYING: This is my ABSOLUTE TIGHTEST mall opener. This is SO FUCKING TIGHT I GUARANTEE nobody has tighter than this in a clothing store.

Grab a stupid jacket off the rack, and say "whoa, this is SWEET.. I should try this on NOW.. check this out.." .... then start moving to the mirror, and hopefully she'll start to come.. then GRAB BACK another jacket, the SAME ONE that you have. So now you BOTH try on the stupid jacket, and look in the mirror as you both look THE SAME. Put your arm around her like its for a silly-picture, and look in the mirror together.

Notice that this is EXTREMELY POWERFUL, because she is looking at the TWO OF YOU TOGETHER, wearing the SAME STUPID SHIT. It is ROLEPLAYING that you are like together or something already, like a stupid couple.

Then say "we should STEAL THESE", and watch her reaction, as you either playfully go along plotting how to do it, or she says NO. If she says "no", then GRAB HER STUFF, and PRETEND like you're running out the door with it..

She'll tackle you, and then you say, "know what?? i know a better way to make $$$.. I need a RICH girl.." and start QUALIFYING HER, the same way as the "girl who cooks" qualifier from the FRAME-SETTING opener from above.


OK, for mid-game, you have to GAUGE how much C&F and various other attracters she needs, in order for HER to try to get rapport with YOU. KEEP FUCKING WITH HER UNTIL *SHE* TRIES TO GET RAPPORT.

That means, do stuff like:

-lying game

-kiss game


-calling her "bad"

-calling her "powerpuff girl"

-a billion other Cocky&Playful things

I do ALL of these C&F. The lying game I use to tease her and ask her funny questions. Kiss game is just PURE COCKY and works AMAZING (read post TD&26 vs. some lame club chicks). CUBE I make fun of her with, and qualify her.


-make her spin around and asking her if she knows how to DANCE (this on the street)

-make her TEACH YOU HER DANCE MOVES right on the street

-try on CLOTHES together

-teach her an ESP trick, and use it to FOOL PEOPLE together

-poke her and tickle her

-steal something from her and make her try to wrestle it from you


Now ONLY AFTER you've done this stuff, will she say:

"what's your name?"

"where do you work?" etc..

What you do is SHIFT GEARS SLOWLY.

You answer with "GUESS" for the first TWO questions or so, and THEN you just ask ONLY what she asks you.

HER: what's your name

YOU: guess (but now switched OUT of C&F tonality into NORMAL tonality, so its still SWITCHING gears, but NOT TOO FAST since you're using "guess")

HER: tom

YOU: no

HER: cliff

YOU: no..

HER: whaaaaat????

YOU: TylerDurden.. what's yours?

HER: HBslut

YOU: cool.. I like that.. (compliment is FINE now, since she's interested)

HER: what do you do?

YOU: guess.. (NON-C&F tone.. NORMAL TONE)

HER: hahah.. ummm ok.. accountant..

YOU: haha.. no I'm definetely not that.. I'm (x-realjob)



G-E-T === R-A-P-P-O-R-T

I MEAN it.. Get DEEP rapport with the chick, so she fucking LOVES you and feels CONNECTED to you.

If you have laid the GROUNDWORK with the COOL opener (like one of the ones I suggested), and the C&F shit that projects the value that you are COCKY and FUN and PLAYFUL and CHALLENGING, then she will LOVE and RELISH getting to know you.

AGAIN, the cocky shit is to get from POINT A (indifferent to you) to POINT B (attracted to you). If you have APPROACH INVITATION YOU DO NOT NEED THIS STUFF AND IT MAY POSSIBLY PUSH THE SEDUCTION BACKWARDS.

If you have AI, you CAN use the "hi" and all that bullshit, to great success.

The point is, though, GET RAPPORT. This is KEY. When you do a PURE C&F sarge, you must either FUCK CLOSE, or accept the FLAKE. This is because she comes out of state IMMEDIATELY after you leave, since you have NO RAPPORT. VERY FEW CHICKS will actually meet you for a 'get-together' if you have no rapport, no matter HOW MUCH C&F you did, and how much she was loving it.

FORMULA = C&F to get ATTRACTION, conversation/geniune to get RAPPORT.

Make her EARN the genuine rapport building conversation by showing you how PLAYFUL she is.

The SAME conversation that would have been LAME had you not laid down the GROUNDWORK, will seem CHARGED. TRUST ME, go TRY IT.



GUNWITCH METHOD CLOSE: Use TRIANGULAR GAZING: Look at her lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes.. Tilt your head, lick your lips, touch her hair, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, move closer, move closer, lips and eyes, KISS.

PHASE SHIFT CLOSER ROUTINE: Are you intuitive? OK.. Are you intelligent? OK.. Do you understand how to follow directions? OK.. Give me your hands..

Take her hands, and run some ring based routine, or palm-reading or some BULLSHIT.. Then talk about soul-gazing and romans and how they knew emotional crap.. Then talk about emotions and it being ALL YOU NEED IN LIFE, and do The EVOLUTION PHASE SHIFT KISS CLOSE (check the Style/CPowles archive for it.. you grab her hair and say it's a natural spot and feels good, and to do it to you, etc etc)

THEN, either ISOLATE, or talk softly and fun about FUTURE GET TOGETHER.

If you don't isolate and same-day f-close, FUCK THE #CLOSE and get a MEET with the chick. Maybe get the #, but REMEMBER that she may have a LIVE IN BOYFRIEND or HUSBAND, so do NOT push the #. Get the MEET, and make it CONVENIENT for yourself to get there on the chance that she flakes.

For meets, I suggest taking her somewhere that is absolutely COST FREE, and gets her adreneline going. Try taking her to a strip where they have sexy/outrageous clothing, and try it on with her.

Basically, Destin9 wants you to just go up, confident, say "hi", and cross your fingers. The ONLY good thing about it I guess is that you had the balls to approach, which is KINDA good, but still not usually enough for ELITE HOT CHICKS.

The confidence that guys like Twentysix or I have now, after 4 nights per week or NON STOP SARGING is probably enough, because we can FOLLOW it with TIGHT STUFF and have a PUA AURA. But for ANY guy who hasn't laid many many chicks yet, or hung out non-stop with a guy who has and modelled him, this approach is BULLSHIT.

This way, you project yourself as FUN/EXCITING/CHALLENGING/CONFIDENT.. Plus, by kiss closing by the end of the first encounter, you really set the frame for an early lay.

Just remember that PARTY GIRLS can OMIT the RAPPORT, while LIBRARIAN GIRLS can omit large chunks of the C&F/ATTRACTION. Girls who are IN BETWEEN can just take some of EACH.

What I've written here is the REAL SHIT, FIELD TESTED, and actually REAL.Use the Destin9 way, but ONLY AFTER you have ESTABLISHED VALUE on yourself. THEN do it her way. Her way let's the GIRL CHOOSE what your value is, based on your LOOKS primarily (though I suppose a LITTLE BIT by your confidence, since you did approach and all, but still mostly by looks when it comes to the hotties)

Fuck all this other bullshit, this is HOW TO SARGE.

Summary: Approach: Make her try to get rapport with you, use body language, get her to shit test you and pass her tests. Midgame: Do fun stuff. Have normal conversation: Get to know eachother, get rapport. C&F for Attraction. Genuine Conversation for Rapport. Make her earn rapport by showing her playfulness. Endgame: Triangular Gazing or phase shift. Isolate or set up a Day2.

How to be genuine


Genuine behaviour and congruency with routines.

The latest discussions about genuine behaviour have just gotten me thinking about something that hasn't really been cashed out on this board lately.


A very important topic.

Try to bear with me, chunks practical and tactical materials ARE buried within..


In my experience, if I ask a girl what sort of way she feels a guy should go about picking her up, she'll often reply with something to the effect of:

"Well.. He should come and say 'Hi'. Then he should just be himself.. He should be confident.. Introduce himself.. Maybe have a sense of humour.. Talk to me a bit so that we can get to know eachother.. And ask me if I'll go somewhere nice with him.. Oh yeah, also I like it if he'll just give me his number, just in case, you know.."

This way, she can screen him on looks, and proceed to make a rational decision on her terms.

It would be uncommon to hear a girl say, "I want a guy who will dupe me into a conversation with a chick-bait opener, tease me until I almost lose my mind, weave back and forth with stories that make me go crazy, spin me around and trick me into kissing him with my eyes closed, tell me cute things about himself so I'll go ga-ga for him, and make fake pre-suppositions to be alone with him so he can caveman me."

Nor would she likely say "I want a guy to hypnotize me with neuro-linguistic-programming."

Nor would she likely say "I want a guy who will ignore me and blast me off my pedastal by only talking to my friends, so that I'll re-validate myself by sleeping with him."

Of course, these last three work consistently on women of exceptional beauty, and the first one doesn't (again, CONSISTENTLY).

I draw this conclusion based on experience. My first 8 months in the game, I only had a book called "10 Secrets for Success with Beautiful Women" by a woman named Ursula Lidstrom.

She advocated the sort of approach that most women would want, and claimed her expertise as exceptional because she is a woman offering "inside info".

Her system was to be yourself, confident, and genuine. Also, to demonstrate alpha status through good bodylanguage and being well dressed. After hundreds of approaches, I got this down pat.

I did at least 5 approaches a day (though usually more), just being myself, confident, and getting to know girls in a way that was very cool and genuine - all as Ursula Lidstrom suggested. Read the book probably 10-15 times. (sidenote: EXCELLENT info on bodylanguage and GWM-style phase shifting can be found in this book, if you screen the rest).

Unfortunately, for those eight months I did not have sex even ONCE. I am not good looking, and could have had sex with HB7s, but that did/does not interest me. I was entirely celibate those eight months. I made many non-sexual friendships with girls, who still to this day social-proof me on campus.

But whenever I'd try to escalate, they'd react with "You're a really great guy. I'm just not looking for someone right now. You're really confident, you'll find someone."

Bear in mind though also, that I am not goodlooking. This probably could have worked for guys who could convey higher value via their looks. People DO hookup.

Also note that in general, YES you CAN pickup a girl within around 1 look-point difference of you, if you use the method that girls want. So if you're a 7 yourself, you can occasionally pickup 6s, 7s, and SOMETIMES 8s using this method. Even higher, but that's a more rare exception.

The reason being, that being confident and genuine IS NOT THAT UNCOMMON, and *unless* the girl doesn't have many genuine people in her life, it doesn't CONVEY HIGHER VALUE.

I have MANY genuinely confident people in my life, and while pleasant it is not a big deal to me. Girls are no different.

Genuine and confident people are EVERYWHERE. There is little correlation between these traits, and an exceptionally drop dead gorgeous woman being attracted to a mediocre looking guy.

The ONLY way that you can convey HIGHER value, by using this method, is if you have a RARE connection with the girl. This does happen, though it cannot be called a consistent pickup method, since it relies on external factors (ie: that you actually have a similar world view, or something similar, etc etc).

This is FAST-Seduction, which discusses how to be a PLAYER. If you want to read about spirituality, I highly recommend that. I've studied buddhism and volumes of spiritual writings, as well as all of Western philosophy - but not on THIS forum. Still, strong inner-peace leads to strong inner-game, and its beneficial.

Health, wealth, relationships -> go to the gym, eat right, find work you love, read important literature, surround yourself with people you love. ALL IMPORTANT to feeling good about yourself, which is important to pickup in ways that cannot even be adaquetely described through this limited cyber-medium.

But yet, even HAVING those things, will you be a *PLAYER*? I know MANY people who have reached this level of enlightenment who are not.

At the time that I was focusing on being genuine and building rapport, I was very much "emotionally whole". I had everything going well for me in my life, and I was a genuinely happy person. I had goodwill towards everyone around me, and projected a positive vibe. This was great, but did not result in success with any exceptionally beautiful women.

Anyway, that was MY EXPERIENCE after eight long months of field-testing this way of doing things. It's just the experience of ONE GUY, so take it for what its worth.



I recall having a convo with Toecutter about his friend who would walk up to women, and tell them that he was rich and wanted to marry them.

He would weave the story, work it, and sleep with them that night. Then he'd blow them off the next day, leaving them heartbroken.

Now my first reaction to this was to be appalled.

I questioned my respect for Toecutter, and generally wondered what he could possibly be thinking. How could he justify this sort of thing?

He said that I was living in an AFC mindset, and that women LOVED "to have their hopes and dreams shattered by scoundrels like Han Solo" and such, and that it was something that they actually WANTED.

He suggested that I read NANCY FRIDAY "My Secret Garden", to read about women's rape fantasies, and how repressive society has generated a common female fantasy for badboys who will break down their socially-taught resistance, and treat them like the "dirty" girls that deep down they know themselves to be.

From reading the book, I interpreted it as saying that the guy tricking/forcing the girl into sex, and leaving her was the girl's way of CONFIRMING that he was the kind of guy that she wants. (sort of to say that the jerk/badboy/untamable behaviour was some sort of CERTIFICATION that the girl has been fertalized by an alpha-seed, or something bizarre to that effect).

Very weird, and disturbing. I did NOT like reading this, nor do I necessarily like it now.

Basically, I interpreted that girls like DRAMA of ANY kind. They want INTENSE emotional drama. As Alphahot mentioned in a post a few threads below this one, they gravitate towards sources of extreme emotions. Scoundrels who use them and thus give them drama. And they gravitate towards it.

Of course, I was skeptical, and even after reading Nancy Friday I still maintained the view that these fantasies were anomolies, and that most women did not want this sort of thing.

Eddy also read this book, and shared my opinion. Be both generally hated it, and I recall Eddy throwing the book across the room several times.

Other PUAs who visit us comment on how scuffed up the book is, as Eddy has thrown it literally on almost every occassion he's read it, screaming "that could be my own mom!!! that could be my own mooooommmmmm!!!! ARGHHHHHH!!!"



In California, I talked to Craig from the archives. He talked about Rick H, and how Rick would talk about women being adaptable.

"Women are adaptable.. whatever frame you set, they'll adapt to.. if you set a frame of provider candidate, they'll adopt a screen frame.. if you set a frame of them being screened for dirty slutty lesbian sex, they'll turn into sluts"

Coming from Rick H, I couldn't downplay this, and decided to explore it more. Particularly after the Toecutter/NancyFriday stuff seemed to gel with this.

From this I spawned the idea for JERK ROUTINES, where I would INTENTIONALLY convey that I like to use and abuse women, right from the start of the pickup. The frame would be set.

I set to the task of field testing it, which I did non-stop for six straight weeks before posting something potentially misleading.


I would do things like tell women to close their eyes, and then kiss them. Tell them that I love them within seconds of meeting, even though this is clearly a way to get into their pants. I would even tell subtle stories about how I am currently planning to use women to get to all their friends.


I adopted the SWINGCAT STYLE QUALIFYING. "Are you adventurous? Cause if you're not adventurous, I can't hang with you."

Up until the Nancy Friday test, I would get them to tell adventurous stories, like extreme sports or travelling or something.

But then I REALIZED the TRUE use in the Swingcat adventurous qualifying.

"Adventurous" was to be a EUPHIMISM for "SLUTTY".

I stopped getting them to tell me stories about adventures, and instead would just pause, and wait for them to give me the REAL DIRT.

Around 90% of women would start telling me about how they love to suck dick and take it on the face. How they dream about getting gang-raped and fucked by strange men and hot guys from clubs.

LITERALLY, I would sit there PRETENDING like I thought this was just great. Making myself out to be NON-JUDGEMENTAL, and even ENCOURAGING. But really, inside, I was thinking "shit I dunno if I can stomach this.." I was still in an AFC mindset. I thought that this was just a series of strange coincidences, and that these girls couldn't represent the majority.

I was forced to RE-ASSESS my VALUE SYSTEM for making judgements on what constituted a nice-girl, since clearly ALL girls had a "slut" side to them.



This was similar to my experience when I first tested routines based on spells and the unknown. I'd always thought that most girls didn't believe in psychics and ESP, until I began making it sound like *I* did, and that I would not JUDGE them on it. I found out that most girls DID believe in ESP, and that those few who didn't could be convinced otherwise with even the most simplistic mentalist illusion.


So much like the non-judgemental frame that use with the ESP stuff, I'd appear NON-JUDGEMENTAL for their "slutty" desires.



It was difficult for me, because I've always been extremely conservative/rightwing/republican.

I changed my image to include wild clothes that projected myself as a badboy sexual being. I started wearing clothes of a female sex fantasy, such as racecar jackets, industrial plat boots, bondage shit, spikey dyed hair, outrageous coolguy accessories, etc etc.

Initially, this was hard for me to stomach. I felt very incongruent for the first week or two.

I began PROJECTING that I was a SCOUNDREL JERK who would intentionally and openly USE and ABUSE of women. I projected "TD is a jerk, who MAKES NO EXCUSES for it.. Like a rockstar, he fucks his groupies, and sends them home happy that they could get even that".

It's funny, because this isn't the case - I didn't feel that way. But in the past, projecting the CONSERVATIVE REAL ME wasn't eliciting any SEXUAL reaction from women.

I decided that IF I CONTINUED DOING WHAT I HAD ALWAYS DONE, I'D CONTINUE TO GET THE RESULTS THAT I'D ALWAYS GOTTEN. (this isn't my catchphrase.. maybe Tony Robbins, I dunno.. Mys uses it all the time).

I know that CLOUD9 also has had inner-conflicts with this. For me, one of top students in my country, its been difficult to DEGENERATE my speaking manneurisms to a more colloquial level.. "like, you know, totally, like, cool..." But unfortunately, my "Queens-talk" (as everyone used to describe my articulate speaking manneurisms) wasn't eliciting strong sexual responses from the sexy girls that I was interested in. They wanted to validate themselves with me, sure. But what they wanted to validate was that they could be as sophisticated as me. IOW, that they're smart, and that they're ladies.

So go ahead and bust on me for being incongruent and not real to myself or something like that. But at the end of the day my girlfriend is an HB10... aside also from the HB8 and HB8.5 that I am also seeing, all of who are really cool girls and who I am genuine with now, AFTER having gotten with them - NOT BEFORE.


Now, when I walk into a room on campus, women start giggling and checking me out. They touch me, shit test me immediately to see if I really AM what I project, and show massive physical IOIs (face me, lean in, perk up their breasts, lick their lips, big eyes, etc etc etc).

I do NOTHING other than just walk into the room, and convey the attitude that's discussed in this post.

"I will fuck you the second you let your guard down, because I am a badboy and that's just me" is the image that I convey, and women respond instantly.

Of course, MOST women will be initially ATTRACTED, but still won't sleep with me from that feeling alone. They can't quite justify their desire, because of social-conditioning.

So the SOLUTION: Show that they have a CHANCE to tame you, and that you have a sensitive inside somewhere deep down.. -> GET RAPPORT.

This leads me to the all important .........



Going back to the TOECUTTER "marry-me" routine, what have I learned?

Toecutter explained that women WILLFULLY IGNORE the truth, in order to preserve the feelings that they are deriving from the massive drama that you provide.

This is also from MANIAC_HIGH, so if you disagree then maybe check out the new maniac plan for more detailed explication.

Anyway, Toecutter states that the girls who were "duped" by the marriage trick were in fact WELL-AWARE that it was clearly bullshit, but that they WANTED to go along with it, so that they could experience the ADVENTURE.

The same goes for Mystery's girlfriend of 5 years, who STILL BELIEVES that he genuinely has MAGIC POWER, including an ability to levitate himself from the ground, move objects with his mind, and read thoughts telepathically.

Of course, having been with him for 5 years, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that she wouldn't have figured out how he does his illusions. Despite his sharp skills, many illusions I figured out after hanging with him for just a month. He may have done it over 300 times before I figured it out, but EVENTUALLY I DID figure it out.

This girl is with him FIVE YEARS and CHOOSES TO BELIEVE THAT THE WORLD IS NOT MUNDANE. There is NO WAY she wouldn't have caught the illusion at least ONE TIME in FIVE YEARS.

She WILLFULLY DECEIVES HERSELF to believe what she wants, because she likes the DRAMA and ADVENTURE.

Same goes with Mystery's other long term girlfriends, who KNOW, read *KNOW*, that he is constantly with other women.

Why does Mystery have condoms all over his room? hmmmmmm... Could he really go months without sex while he travels??? hmmmmm.... What does it mean when girls call him non-stop while they're in bed together??? hmmmmm... He walks into the club and girls SWARM him... hmmmmmm.. He picked her up and fucked her first night they met... hmmmm....

But still they CHOOSE to IGNORE it, because he provides the drama that they want.

And as a BONUS, they get to go home and spend time convincing their parents and friends how great Mystery is, which gives them even MORE drama.

Likewise, in my small community, I go pickup girls. They go back to their roomates, who inevitably on some occassions will have been picked up by me a month earlier. But does that REPEL them from me, like our LOGICAL AFC-INDOCTRINATED brains would have so long expected? NOPE. It just gives them MORE DRAMA and sucks them in even deeper.

This was even the case when they've heard that I used the SAME OPENERS and ROUTINES. Strange, huh? You'd think that it would break their interest. But not the case. Why not? Could it be that finding out that I am a womanizing-"jerk" was congruent with what I projected during the pickup?



So that's it. I get it now. Women aren't like what I thought. Or rather, at least when it comes to SEX.

The girls that I thought were 'nice' have revealed that they've been fucked by anonymous guys, loved it, and want it again.

The girls that I thought were LOYAL to their boyfriends have called them from my bed, GUILT-FREE, lying about where they were last night like it was NOTHING.

I've found that girls break guys into categories of SEDUCERS and EMOTIONAL SUPPORTERS, and that if I don't want my girl to cheat on me, she's gonna have to get her drama from ME, and not from some asshole player.

So if that is the case then, what kind of girl do I look for when I'm ready to have children or get married?



I am still deciding on this, and really I have only limited insights.

But for me, at this time, I use NON-AFC-CULTURE based value judgements.

I look at the kind of connection that I have with her, and the way that we get along AFTER we've "hooked-up".

Because, like Mystery, I agree that only AFTER you hookup do you start communicating GENUINELY.

The FIRST genuine conversation happens in bed together, AFTER THE GAME IS OVER, and you find out whether or not this was just a validation-game, or if its an emotional connection.

And do *I* necessarily want the games? Nope.

I remember when I first did clubs, and I'd tease a high calibre HB. Say a 9 or 10. And she'd touch me, and say that she liked me. But as soon as I'd RECIPROCATE that, she'd LOSE INTEREST. It was a SHIT TEST, NOT genuine communication. Or was it? Was it genuinely communicating that she wanted to see if I was really the jerk she wanted me to be, and that she had to test me to find out?

Do shit tests constitute genuine communication? The girl is tricking you, to find your true nature. But then, if you pass, you genuinely will hookup with her. So is the girl genuine, or not? Not necessarily an easy question to answer.

YES, I have MANY genuine emotional connections with girls. My sister, her friends, my pivots, my relatives, my teachers. The girls that I am ALREADY with – my 3 MLTRS.

But NOT with girls that I am in the MIDST of picking up, because it is still *GAME-ON*.

Afterwards, once I have PROVEN myself to be the kind of man that she wants, I can get to know her on a more personal and genuine level. Until then, it is about SEXUAL ATTRACTION, which is NOT necessarily related to genuine communication. It CAN be, but it isn't necessarily the case.

And why? Because there are several types of attraction, and while we may make socially based value judgements on which are more legitimate, the fact remains that they EXIST.

And of course, if genuine communication in the TRADITIONAL SENSE was the BASIS of ATTRACTION, then I suppose I'd probably be hooked up with the very fat and ugly girl from my history class, with whom I had a great conversation with last fall.

But then, the attractive girls I bed will most often BACKWARDS RATIONALIZE whatever nice things she finds out about me, and probably decide that THOSE things were CLEARLY what allowed her to be seduced by me. Of course that's all after the fact. Contingencies.

This is how the game is played bros, at least in my personal opinion. Just the opinion of a new PUA, trying to make sense of all of this. Some of it is probably dead-on, and some of its probably inaccurate. Take it for what its worth.



So if people play these games, what constitutes genuine?

What *is* genuine? If I were to be TRULY genuine with what *I* wanted to talk to girls about, I'd discuss logic and other esoteric philosophical issues. I'd discuss cars, and mechanics, and sports, and wars, and taking extreme risks and my criminal youth. I'd discuss how I'm right-wing and how I believe in certain repressive traditional values. I'd discuss John Rawls vs. Robert Nozick.. I'd discuss Heideger and Nietzche and Sartre, and subjective morality in a world without dogmatic value sources. I'd discuss Kripke and causal theory. I'd discuss flaws in symbolic notation. This stuff FASCINATES me.

I don't LIKE talking about social dynamics and feelings. It BORES me. *Most* things that *most* girls like to talk about are of NO INTEREST to me.

I DO NOT ENJOY running JUGGLER's rapport routines like "I really like pizza" and "this is what my own palm says about me" and "what would your life be rated if it was a movie?", and making those kind of self-revealing statements. Nor would I like them any better had I invented them.

Or rather, I LIKE running them, for the purpose of PICKING UP. But I don't run them for the SOLE SAKE of running them.

I will USE this stuff, but I don't LIKE it anymore than ANY OTHER stuff that I use. NONE of it is the "REAL ME" in the TRADITIONAL SENSE, so both MM and Juggler method are EQUAL in my mind.

I AM NOT stating that they don't work, or that Juggler's method isn't GREAT. Juggler-method WORKS - its GREAT.

But I *AM* stating that it is NO MORE GENUINE for me to PRETEND that I am enjoying talking about real genuine feelings in a Juggler-style that I really don't care to talk about, than it is for me to run the routines that I do most of the time now.

Either way, I'm FAKING SOMETHING. As are MOST sensitive new aged guys who will talk about this sappy crap, in the subconscious hope that it will gain attention from women.

Picking up by talking about real stuff that I feel, but DO NOT want to be talking about, is of no greater value to me than telling stories that I read from the internet. I'm still being ungenuine, in a SENSE, because my motivations extend BEYOND the expression itself.

Again, this is NO CRITICISM OF JUGGLER. His stuff ROCKS. My sole statement though is that it is NO MORE OR LESS GENUINE for me to run one pickup style, or another. They are all equal in that respect.

So what if I just talked about things I *AM* interested in talking about. The esoteric technical stuff. Well if I talk about these things girls will leave. They'll either argue, get bored, or flat walk away. They won't be interested, and they'll anchour feelings of boredom to me. I've TESTED this.

Why? Basic supply and demand. There are many genuine and confident people out there, and some give them better emotions than others. So I "set the bait" with the stuff that they'll react to sexually. Of course you could cry ‘supplication!', but then really we all supplicate ourselves in one way or another. The trapper supplicates by laying bait, but then he reaps the rewards later. Putting in work to get a result is not supplication.

And let's say that being "myself" DID find me that ONE special girl.. I STILL wouldn't care, because I'm not INTERESTED in that kind of relationship in my early twenties anyway.


Is REFUSING to play games genuine?

If that's the case, then WHY have I SO RARELY had a girl angry or upset with me?

I mean, even after NUMEROUS relationships, have I had less problems than my average AFC friend with just a handful.

Many people probably QUESTION why I would pawn off 2 HB7s to pickup a HB9 or 10. Rightly so. But what they don't realize from behind their remote computer screens is that so long as you ACTIONS ARE CONGRUENT TO YOUR BADBOY FRAME, girls will EXPECT this behaviour, and NEVER be surprised when it happens. It's part of who you are, and they're SMART enough to know its coming.

Even with the bit of rapport that they NEED to justify their embarkment on your adventure, they still KNOW what is coming, and ACCEPT IT.

I'll have girls that I never called back, or pawned off for hotter girls, ALWAYS coming over to chat me and catch up. They're never upset. Always very happy to see me again.

In my opinion, there is a clear cut reason -> While my sexual persona may not be as congruent with my real personality as I'd like, my *ACTIONS* are CONGRUENT with what I *PROJECT*.

Since the girls I associate with KNOW and EXPECT that its going to be a short-lived ADVENTURE (given that I've made it fully obvious from the start), they NEVER get genuinely upset when it ends. Sure, they may pout briefly, but then they're off to the NEXT STIMULUS - be it the next socially-proofed jerk, or dancing, or drinks.

On the other hand, back when I used to be the LOYAL-AFC, when I'd dump the few girls I got they'd get VERY UPSET.

Which makes me think: Is it more genuine to build connections where you project that you are a more quiet one-girl type, when that is not you (even if you state polyamory, you still come-off that way). Or is it more genuine to be a jerk up front, and allow the chick to FREELY CHOOSE to go along for the short-adventure or not.

I guess we have to come to our own answers, and find our own subjective value systems. That's life. I don't judge. Call it aggrandized self-rationalization, but this is just the way that I make sense of the world that I've been thrown into, given my life experiences and how I've assimilated them.

The interactions with the women in my life ARE genuine, but during the initial phases of our relationship - the period where the FRAME is BARGAINED for and ESTABLISHED - I strive to convey that there are only CERTAIN parameters that I am comfortable with.

And making it obvious that I am only a short-lived adventure for them, through the jerk-way that I present myself, is the way that I go about doing it. Once the pact is made (sex), I'm comfortable to be fully myself. Discuss what I want, etc etc.. And the girls are ALWAYS happy to discuss stuff that is important to me AFTER we've had sex, because she's made that investment in me, and NOW FINALLY wants to know more about who I am. I fully believe that as a sexual-partner-candidate, you are NOTHING to a girl before you've had sex.

Or rather, you may be a friend. But that entitles you to nothing sexually. Nor should it.



When taking a job-interview, you'll present yourself in a particular way. During a family gathering, it may be another way. And with your friends, it may be another way.

Everyone has different SIDES to their personality, and each judges when it is APPROPRIATE to exhibit a particular side.

Why not "just be yourself" at ALL times? Because EACH of these sides ARE the "real you", just different aspects.

Acting the SAME in ALL situations is INCONSIDERATE to the people around you. If you horse around at a job interview, you show lack of respect for the interviewer's experience. If you act overly sophisticated with your friends, you show lack of respect for the bond that you have with them, and the clowning-around that goes along with it.

And as with the boss at the job interview, you hope to eventually get to know your girl on a more "genuine" level, when the time is APPROPRIATE.

When INITIALLY PICKING UP A GIRL, showing the side of yourself that ELICITS SEXUAL REACTION is MOST APPROPRIATE, because you are not putting the girl in a position where she has to snub you based on sexual indifference to your approach. You don't like it that most girls like to party? TO BAD. Don't post about it on the PLAYER board.

Being unsexual during pickup can be UNAPPROPRIATE.

The girls that I pickup CLEARLY KNOW that I am someone who is TOYING with them, that it gives them drama that they like, and that our relationship will likely be short-lived. It is OBVIOUS, because at this point I am THAT GOOD.

Women are no more in the dark about my nature than men are about women with fake breasts. They KNOW what's up, but they DON'T CARE.

And REALLY, these had been my intentions ALL ALONG. I am young, want to PARTY, and am not interested in actively seeking anything beyond a sexual connection at this point. Should it happen – GREAT. But I'm not SEEKING it. So why did I try to gain sexually via rapport and connections in the past? Solely for PRAGMATIC reasons. I thought that it would WORK.

So was I really congruent before? NO. I was just CONFORMING, and hadn't the NERVE to show my intentions.

Also, I didn't REALIZE that my intentions WERE NOT EVIL. Women APPRECIATE these kinds of guys, and you BENEFIT when you openly demonstrate that you are that guy – making no excuses for it.

While AT FIRST I felt INCONGRUENT, I later realized that in fact I HAD BECOME congruent.

I began PROJECTING the sort of image that was congruent with my INTENTIONS, and girls were reacting better, and never showing unpleasant surprises as in they had in the past.

My act of pre-planning and studying lines and tactics to project my badboy image IS CONGRUENT with who I am, because who I am is someone whose intentions are to interact with women in this way.

They enjoy it. I enjoy it.

They benefit. I benefit. We MUTUALLY benefit.

I am now congruent. I feel good for it.

If you want to judge it, go ahead. Just don't claim that your philosophy has any superiority over any other subjective value-judgement, because it is just that. A subjective value judgement.



So there you have it. Many chicks dig jerk-asshole types. Who ever said that the community never makes new discoveries anyway? hmmmmm....

And what is genuine? What is truth? Those questions are to be pondered over a lifetime, and they are part of what makes the human experience dynamic.

But if I can draw one solid conclusion, its that claiming absolute knowledge of such questions is self-indulgent. And in the opinion of this lowly-PUA, its not genuine.


Subject: What is genuine? What is mutual benefit? (verylong
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:43:00 -0400

Just checking in here ... ran a search to see what people are saying about my ideas. The things you have quoted me on is not the sort of advice I would have put out onto this public forum with all sorts of disfunctional whackos reading it. On the other hand, it is nice that you are breaking out of a "square" view of sexuality.

The reason I jump in here and post is because I know that people do things just because I said it was a good thing to do. Do not read the wrong things into what TD has said of my advice. Not unless you are sexually hip. Like when you can watch 2 men kissing in a film without turning away. When you are gentle and like women. When you can do all of the sexual role playing with a smile and affection for the girl. Most of you reading this are not there, so dont even bother. Nevertheless I will expand a little.

TD wrote:
> I recall having a convo with Toecutter about his friend who would walk up to women, and tell them that he was rich and wanted to marry them.

> He would weave the story, work it, and sleep with them that night. Then he'd blow them off the next day, leaving them heartbroken.
> Now my first reaction to this was to be appalled.
> I questioned my respect for Toecutter, and generally wondered what he could possibly be thinking. How could he justify this sort of thing?
>He said that I was living in an AFC mindset, and that women LOVED "to have their hopes and dreams shattered by scoundrels like Han Solo" and such, and that it was something that they actually WANTED.
OK, this guy we are talking about that proposes to chicks is a good friend, and a truely excellent PUA. Not in the walk-in-with-square-shoulders-on-a-mission kind, but rather he just surrounds himself in women. He specialises in the waitresses from the hottest venues in town, as well as the elite looking girls within those venues. TD, if you had met him you would understand. BL met him, but unfortunately did not hear him recount stories of how he proposed to chicks. The stories are halarious. He is a good story teller.

The guy IS a scoundrel. That is his style. He will blatently hit on a waitress in a playful way. Ask them outright if they have a boyfriend while they are taking his order. Run cheeky and blatent boyfriend destroyers on them (not as covert hypnosis, but as comedy). Ask them if they don't think they need more of a James Bond type in their life [blatent and obvious self point and cheeky grin]. They laugh, batter their eyelids and try to tell him they are taken, and it is all fun. All a game. This is what one might call flirting. He is a good flirt. The girls love it.

The marry me thing crosses over into sexual fantasy, however. It is fantasy role play. I knew at the time (when I explained it to you) you weren't hip to it (sexual fantasy role play). You seemed to me to have a square madonna/whore view of sexuality. If you can get hip to sexual fantasy role play, you will become a good PUA. You will have to change a fair bit of your persona to make it congruent, but there perhaps is the key. It signals to the girls that you are good in bed. Simple as that. And play games in the bedroom. And are fun. And are confident. In your-self. In your sexuality. And don't take yourself too seriously. And are able to joke and "just pretend" in the way children do so easily.

TD wrote:
>He suggested that I read NANCY FRIDAY "My Secret Garden", to read about women's rape fantasies, and how repressive society has generated a common female fantasy for badboys who will break down their socially-taught resistance, and treat them like the "dirty" girls that deep down they know themselves to be.

Don't get me wrong. Those fantasies are not violent rape fantasies. They are fantasies about being a 16th century dutch maid in a windmill in old Amsterdam and being taken from behind while she scrubs the floor by her master for example (I think I just made that up). It is about taking away all the heavy consequences from sex. Like all the risks; emotional, societial, physical risks that are so overwhealming that if a girl considers it too long she will never fuck anyone. In many of the fantasies she imagines herself a different person so that even in the fantasy she does not have to take responsibility for why she would be doing this.

Womens fantasy novels are full of fortune hunters (tricking the lead female out of her knickers and her fortune in a lavish ploy), pirates and others of that type. It is not that girls deep down are "dirty girls" (the word itself holds large values judgements about how you view sex and women). You know that some girls like to get drunk to absolve themselves of the responsibility for their actions. And similarly that LMR is often a plea to have you take away her free will. Not using physical strength (or at least not in anything more than a play-acting way). This is a subtle thing, and you have to be extremely hip and cool to understand exactly what I mean here.

TD wrote:
> From reading the book, I interpreted it as saying that the guy tricking/forcing the girl into sex, and leaving her was the girl's way of CONFIRMING that he was the kind of guy that she wants. (sort of to say that the jerk/badboy/untamable behaviour was some sort of CERTIFICATION that the girl has been fertalized by an alpha-seed, or something bizarre to that effect).

No you have misinterpreted what I meant. It is not some test they put you into because they are "choosing" or "testing" or wanting to give you some sort of "certification", I am talking about being the real deal where you choose her for an evening of pleasure. Being hip and playful and understanding that right now in this given moment she NEEDS you to tell her that she has no choice so that it makes it all okay for her to take the next step towards doing what she will soon be doing because she has no choice. She is swept away in the moment and the situation. We need to be very careful here though. The resistance needs to be nominal and tokinal. Not real resistance. DO NOT READ ME IN THE WRONG WAY. THIS IS ROLE-PLAY, NOT RAPE. It is like when you tie your girl-friends wrists and ankles to the bed in consentual sex and get together a "safe word" to have you let her out if she ever becomes uncomfortable. Other than the safe word she can scream "No", "Don't", "Stop", and it is just her getting into the scenario in her mind. It is consentual. It is role play. Only in a PU the rules of engagement have not been made explicit like with your girl-friend. This COULD actually be the real deal for her, and she COULD be acutally living out her fantasy. On the other hand the guy might just be play-acting like her ex. The thrill of not knowing but going ahead anyway makes it twice as good for her. You have to be extremely sensitive to find rules of egagement without them being articulated (thus ruining the fantasy) that both you and her are comfortable with. It is not for squares. You have to be hip to it before you can understand it and live it. In other words, if you are not hip to it and have a square meat-and-potatoes view of sex, dont go near this because you will fuck it up, get yourself into serious trouble and leave emotional scars both on you and an innocent girl.

TD wrote:
> Of course, I was skeptical, and even after reading Nancy Friday I still maintained the view that these fantasies were anomolies, and that most women did not want this sort of thing.

These are not anomolies. This is the fantasy world of women. Buy one of those Harlequin romance novels and read it. The novel is one long womens fantasy. There is nothing wrong with sex. Women like it in that dream-like way of the novels. Not the hard focus gritty reality way of mens porn films.

TD wrote:
> I would do things like tell women to close their eyes, and then kiss them. Tell them that I love them within seconds of meeting, even though this is clearly a way to get into their pants.

This needs to be done in a cheeky way. Not for a guy who takes himself seriously. Comedy.

> I would even tell subtle stories about how I am currently planning to use women to get to all their friends.

Don't like it. It comes off as machiavalian and conniving (is that how you spell it?).

TD wrote:
> It was difficult for me, because I've always been extremely
> conservative/rightwing/republican.
> I changed my image to include wild clothes that projected myself as a badboy sexual being. I started wearing clothes of a female sex fantasy, such as racecar jackets, industrial plat boots, bondage shit, spikey dyed hair, outrageous coolguy accessories, etc etc.

Yes, I can see that this would be difficult for you. It would require you relaxing. Walking, talking and holding yourself with less excitability and tension (in your neck, shoulders, etc.). Just unwinding and speaking slower. Listening better because you are comfortable in your skin (and once you have listened you are still free to judge or say exactly what your think without fears about "what she'll think of me", because you are cool and bad and she is a pretty but stupid little girl). And then connecting on a relaxed, playful and non-judgemental level with the kinky little freak that she has inside. And leading that little freak without giving her the yes/no choice at any stage. This is more complex than buying some accesories like a racecar jacket. It would be great to see you pulling this off, I am sure with some effort you will do well.

> I began PROJECTING that I was a SCOUNDREL JERK who would intentionally and openly USE and ABUSE of women. I projected "TD is a jerk, who MAKES NO EXCUSES for it.. Like a rockstar, he fucks his groupies, and sends them home happy that they could get even that".

OK this is good.

> Toecutter explained that women WILLFULLY IGNORE the truth, in order to preserve the feelings that they are deriving from the massive drama that you provide.

Not just women, we all do it. We all have our rose coloured glasses. But you have summed this up very elequently so I will leave it there, I have things to do.

No, let's just be friends

No??let's just be friends ...When do you give up on a girl? When do you decide that a relationship is not advancing? When you are the only one making an effort to ...

Ideally, you should never get to a point where a girl is forced to LJBF you - that is when she doesn't want you but you don't seem to be able to take a hint. First of all, you should be able to make most any girl want you anyway, and secondly, should she really be disinterested, you should have moved on long before she has a chance to LJBF you. If however you still happen to wind up in a mess like that, this is what Don Diebel suggests (he should know, he is the dating guy.

Don Diebel: If a girl ever blocks advancing the relationship by saying, No, let's just be friends, say, No, I have lots of friends. See you later. By continuing this type of relationship, you portray yourself as someone who has nothing better to do than hang around with a girl who is not that interested in you. The relationship will never get to where you want to go - to bed for some romance, passion, and sex. And even if by some miracle the relationship did advance to the bedroom, she would be doling out sex - dictating the where, when and how much. If she wants to cut you off at any time, she can and you have to accept it because that is the implied agreement from the start. She is in complete control, hence, she will never be satisfied with you.

If, on the other hand, you walk away from this relationship, you have established that you are the type used to leading a relationship, you have plenty of other girls willing to take you on your terms, and she is losing out. We have seen cases where a man will completely turn around the relationship as son as a girl sees that he is willing to walk rather than accept something that is not on his terms.

When do you give up on a girl? When do you decide that a relationship is not advancing? When you are the only one making an effort to keep it advancing. If she is not putting energy in to you, take the hint and move on to the next prospect. Don't stay where you're not appreciated. If this situation does occur, try to figure out why. How did she perceive you? What turned her off? Learn from your mistakes.

What to do, if you can see that you're approaching LJBF-land with a girl. Glenn Durden: Completely and totally cut off all contact with her for a few months. When you come back, you can almost start from scratch. More of a stranger, less of a close friend.


The Way to get LAID

Whatever happened to the 70s/80s pick up artist, from a time when women weren't EVEN AS LOOSE sexually as they are today? Guy who could go out and get a woman same day or night and fuck her? Am I totally alone out there in the ability to do this? Women now though in the 2000s, easy pickens if you play your shit right.

Lets get back to fundamentals right here.

A to Z, THIS is what gets you laid. No, my name wasn't dropped recently by a magazine. No, I am not THE founder of things. Anyone who can read the lay reports, anyone I've helped in chat or email knows, GWM, or Gunwitch means fuckin LAYS, not all the bullshit. SO listen up!

I'll lay out my basic strategy here today.

Lets get started.

Women want to have sex with men, women are not from Venus, we are not from Mars, there is no need to see this as a battle, it is mutually shared sexual gratification. Women love sex, one must realize this.

Field work generates effective techniques and tactics, not vice versa.

Ejecting from a pick up unless it's a DONE deal is illogical. Better to stand there with nothing particular to say and let her talk or walk, than to leave and never know.

If I relax they will relax, if I am sexual they will be sexual. First basis of getting anyone to do anything is the walks like a duck acts like a duck must be a duck principle. If you pigeonhole yourself as entertaining guy, or funny guy, or witty guy in her mind you are shorting yourself from pigeonholing yourself as "lover man". Feel it, show it, but don't say it, and she will place you in the category of a lover.

What I do.

I go out in the daytime.

Go in a department store or mall. Stay out of clubs; learn to not have to be drunk/ bottle of courage to approach women. Clubs are a tougher environment because its almost all visually based, hence you need to be 7'5'' or an ass model to stand out. Go to a department store or mall.

See my target. I see MY (not bimbo ideal, but what I want to fuck) 10, in one spot, not moving and by her self. No need to add chaos to the situation by approaching a moving target or target with a friend who will set off her "what will SHE think" conditioning against sex with strangers.


Feel a sexual state/get horny for her; start to go 2-3 on 1-10 scale

Go stand near her and look at something.

Watch for her to look at me.

Look back at her in the eyes and say hello, hi, what's up, depending on the chick's age and look.

See I don't BURST IN. I hover close by make it more natural and less threatening. This isn't like a club where drunks just trample each other and slobber on ugly women.

I relax and ask her a couple questions until she seems to get comfortable.

"You from around this area?"
"Never seen you around here before."
"Oh really where ya from?"
"By the way I'm rob."
"You are?"

At her first smile back at me, first laugh at something that isn't funny I begin to walk like someone she knows, talk like someone she knows, and be seen as someone she knows, not a stranger.

I start talking about the environment or music movies TV Celebs etc. Get way more relaxed. People KNOW the Simpson's, they KNOW Chandler and Rachel and Ross, they KNOW Buffy and Giles and spike. I don't ask her "do you watch xxxxxx" I ask her "what do you watch on TV?" she says something I don't know and cant assume a rapport based on talking about?
I say "what else do you watch?" until I hit one we both watch.

Sexual state goes to 5-6 on scale of 1-10 during this. Looking her in the eyes, sitting closer to her.

Conversation is had, all different types, but always of neutral topics. During which sexual state and relaxation both reach 9-10 levels. Might be an hour, might be 30 minutes, and might be 3 hours. Time spent is not time wasted. Go spend 3 hours getting phone numbers, call them all back, and see how many times you get laid. Less than 3 hours spent face to face guaranteed.

I calibrate her to see if/when she shows me sexual state back. When she does I suggest isolation "lets go up to my house I'm having a barbecue later I'd like to introduce you to my friends" to give her an excuse. The excuse can be anything, but NEVER an actual proposition of sex. Women LOVE sex, but don't wanna seem easy and are told by society it is wrong. SO subtle is key.

If she hems and haws I wait and ask again, I continue this until she gets rude or says "NO". Usually she will hem and haw when you persist, then say yes. Outright "NO"? That never happens when you first see her sexual state. Even if you haven't seen her sexual state first, "No" is a rare animal, because people have trouble saying no firmly. Test it out, you'll see.

Once isolated, I'll ask her to come sit with me or lay down with me, depending on where I end up sitting or laying down.

Kiss her, start making out, make out for a long time until I'm sure she's hot and then **** her.

By no means is this fool-proof. And something new always comes up in each pick up. But the above works for me (if I don't tamper with the above specifics) about 80% of the time. When I go in a club and hit on groups of women, approach moving targets, or I go to a party and am all wild and giddy; then the percentage lowers. All in all it's a strong foundation I can adapt from. I don't care what method you use, go try this and approach for 1 week instead, come back and post your lay report.

LAY reports are fuckin' common using the above principles; FIELD reports are common using anything else. I'm not saying this to brag, just trying to put it in perspective that the above, though simple (and maybe you're saying to yourself: "It can't be that simple or I'd have known about it") does work - WELL!

Summary: Daygame: See target - Relax - Feel light sexual state - Watch for her to look at you - Look at her and say hi - Relax and vibe - Increase sexual state - Watch for her sexual state to rise - Isolation question until she says "No" - Isolate - Ask her to sit with you - Make Out - Escalate - Sex.


If she disrespects you

MrSex4uNYC: At the first sign of disrespect to you OR passing up an opportunity to spend time with you, you dump her. When she calls you wanting to go out or something, you tell her that her behaviour was unacceptable and that the only way you are going to let her hang out with you again is if she (make up whatever shit you want her to do because she broke the rules, fuck, suck, whatever). If all you want from her is a kiss, get that. If all you want is for her to dress sexily, make her do that. If she doesn't agree to your terms tell her don't call you again until you are ready to meet my demands and HANG UP. The point of returning fox is that she is crawling back to you so you have the POWER in the relationship.

Ross Jeffries suggests issuing a warning at first, which is pretty much the same thing - you have to show that you're serious about it: Don't be afraid to call her on bullshit she might pull. Girls will always test your limits so the first time they do, call them on it. Tell her that you won't put up with that shit and not to do it again. NEVER forget you were born without her. And that there are a hundreds more like her and a thousands more that are even better than her.

Disrespecting you can also be a form of testing you if the chick likes you at first but wants to determine your worthiness or lack of worthiness - she will be testing you in order to find out whether you are a supplicating taking-all-her-shit pussyboy or a man with self-control and the ability to take charge.

Mr Happy: In order to pass such a test (an example of which is cancelling a date), you must:

1. Show that you don't lose your temper over it.

2. Show that you don't whine like a baby over it.

3. Show that it doesn't really phase you.

4. Show that you DO find it disrespectful and that you don't tolerate that.

(4. is the most important point, but you MUST do it in such a way that (1,2,3. are true.


If she asks Are you enjoying seducing women

Trying the techniques provided here could sometimes result in the woman asking you with a sly smile:

• Are you trying to seduce me?

• So you enjoy seducing women?

• Have you broken many hearts?

• You're a player, aren't you?

Neither Um. yea nor OH-NO! are any good to respond to that with. Rather use the excellent aversion provided by David Shade:

I enjoy getting to know a woman who is intelligent, natural, and who has a child-like curiosity for life. And when I meet such a woman, I would want to enjoy all that life has to offer together with her. And for me there is nothing finer then feeling that incredible connection with someone that you feel so very close to.

You just made her feel even better while avoiding a direct answer.

NihgLight9 explains, why neither a yes or a no are good anwers to a question like that. NightLight9, ASF: I think mystery is something you want. Being known as a ladies man is good thing with some women, but not others, but having her wonder is probably better than either. If your going after women who are older, more experienced or want to seem older your experience would be a real plus. I see a lot of women who want a guy who has had a few partners, but not a lot. They don't want to train, but they don't want a player. Being a player makes them not feel like they are special.


How to Pick up a Girl in a Club

A club can be a particularly frustrating place to meet someone, with all the noise, the crowd and the business of the participants. In fact, most women don't go to clubs to meet men. Yet, many men go to clubs to meet women. Here is a step-by-step guide on the best way to increase your chances of success.


1. Arrive early. By midnight, most people have already coalesced into groups, making them harder to approach.

2. Start conversations with people in the line-up. A good start is to ask someone if this is the event you are looking for.

3. After entering through the door, make eye contact with the first woman there. Again, "is this the event?" is an opening that will work. Since she's by the door, chances are she has just arrived and is also looking for someone to talk to.

4. Whenever you meet someone, ask if she's there alone or with friends. Then ask to meet her friends. Chances are she'll be happy to introduce. They tend to prefer the group dynamic in this setting.

5. Once you get names, and a few minutes of chit chat, move on. This shows them that you're not desperate and that you have things to do. You can come back to them later as someone they already know.

6. After moving away, you may need to write down the names you just got for later reference.

7. Whatever you do, DON'T BE A WALLFLOWER. Guys who stand against the wall looking longingly at the women gets you pidgenonholed as a typical desperate guy they like to avoid. If you get stuck in such a position, move from it to another vantage point every few minutes before you get another project going.

8. If you feel like resting, find a seat away from the crowd.

9. Have things to do: Bring a camera, explore the place, check out the bathroom, buy a drink, get a napkin. Have a look of Destination on your face. What does this look like? Simple: Just take a look at the busy-looking women as they go from place to place on some seelingly crutial mission.

10. If you see people you know, go over to them. They may end up introducing you to more people.

11. Talk to bouncers and security people. This makes you look important. These people are often bored and will be happy to talk to you.

12. Bring an entourage. It makes you attractive if you are part of a group.

13. If possible, come with a "wing-woman." A wing-woman is an attractive woman who is only a friend. This makes you look attractive.

14. Find someone to dance with. For this, an older or less attractive woman is ideal. They will be happy to dance with you and you will attract the attention of the young and pretty ones who are wondering why you chose this one as opposed to them. When the dance is over, compliment your partner and excuse yourself, then approach any one of the cute ones who will now be looking at you.

15. Talk to female wallflowers. They are open to meeting someone. Even if she is older or less attractive, engage them in conversation. This will make the cute ones wondering (same as #12).

16. Walk around with a big cool looking drink. This will get you attention. Ask the bartender for a recommendation on this.

17. Go outside. They stamp your hand so you might as well use it. Outside there is less competition and a it's less crowded and you can occasionally find a lone woman taking a break or a smoke.

18. Instead of asking for a phone number, ask for a business card. If she says she doesn't have one, ask if she has email.

19. Don't be satisfied with one email or phone number, even if you think she is the "woman of your dreams." Most women will not return a phone call from a guy she met at a club.

20. Make sure to circle around back to the women you met at the beginning. At this point, after missing you, they will be more open to talk.

21. The next day, email all the women. Give them some sort of way for them to remember who you are, and give them your phone number and tell them when you will be available.


1. If a woman insults you, just say "whatever" and turn away.

2. If a woman displays childish or otherwise condescending or inappropriate behavior, do not feel like you have to play into it: Simply say: "I thought you were interesting, but I see I was mistaken. Good evening," and then turn to walk away. If she's descent she'll apppologize and pull you back.

3. If you see a couple who looks like they might be just friends, try introducing yourself to the guy first. He'll introduce you to her if he's her "wing-man."

4. Don't feel like you have to spend the whole evening talking to one woman. She's there to be with other people too. So if things are going well, ask for an email.

5. Come clean, groomed and wear a nice, pressed, expensive looking dark shirt.

6. If a woman makes eye contact, go for it.

7. If a woman avoids eye contact, you have just been rejected. Move on.

8. If someone indicates that he or she would like to talk to you, for example, by making eye contact, talk to him or her even if you are not interested. This will make you look as busy as anyone else, and makes it look as though you didn't come there to meet pick up women.

9. Don't dance too much by yourself. It makes you look alone. If there's one song you must dance to, do it where you're not too noticeable.

10.For picking up women on the dance floor itself, see the wikihow on how to pick up a woman on a dance floor.

11.If you find yourself with nothing to do, look busy and important: Check your email, text your friends, call your mom, etc. If you don't know what "busy and important" is supposed to look like, just watch the busy and important women doing those things.

12.When choosing a woman to take your picture, pick one who has her own camera. This way (a) she probably knows what she's doing, and (b) after she takes yours, you can continue by offering to take one of her.


1. Don't try to pick up the bartender. She's busy. If you must pick her up, only try it either very early or very late if she seems to have time.

2. Keep in mind that most women at clubs are not there to meet new people but to have fun with people they already know.

3. Realize that YOU WILL GET REJECTED as a matter of course by at least some of the women you approach. Some women enjoy the power surge of rejecting someone and get themselves all dolled up just to attract their next victim(s). If you cannot handle this, you should find other places to pick up women.

4. Beware of boyfriends. If you see a couple very close and lovey-dovey, give them space.

5. Occasionally, a woman will be downright rude and insulting. Learn to deal with this.

6. Don't wear cologne. It may attract women you don't want, and turn away others you do want.

7. Do not invest any emotion into any one individual, or the entire project in general. Remember that women who go to clubs are probably too vapid and superficial for the long term anyway.


How to Pick up a Woman

You are at a bar or a club. You see a woman you'd like to know better. What do you do? Well, try being bold, open and happy for starters. Women like guys who show a smile and even more than this, women like a guy who can laugh at himself and who can crack good jokes. What else? Read on to find out some more ways to improve your chances.


1. Assess the situation. Only nine percent of women say that they found love in a bar. Is this great gal that you're checking out part of that nine percent? Here are some good signs:

(1) Assess whether she is checking you out. Perhaps she's smiling or talking to her friends while looking at you. Many guys don't pursue in this situation because they don't believe what they are seeing or they are waiting for the girl to approach. Yes, she is checking you out and no, she will definitely not approach you. However, she will appreciate it if you send a drink or a plate of nachos her way with a few chuckles and smiles from you. Then go and own up and start talking.

(2) Be careful if she is alone. This is a tough call. She may be waiting for someone. Possibly the girl of your dreams will make it obvious if she's waiting for someone by looking towards the door often. If this is the case, don't pursue. If not, well, she just isn't that insecure to be by herself and is most likely to appreciate a good chat, whether or not another guy is coming to meet her. Hey, what's to lose by at least trying?

(3) Decide what it means if she is dressed provocatively. Women who are interested in meeting someone might wear bold, solid colors like black, white or red. They also typically put a lot of effort into their hair, makeup and shoe selection. Mind you, women often do this for women too, so don't make assumptions. Women don't like looking as if they've spent a day at the construction site when they go out to enjoy themselves. So shelve the assumptions and look lively. If her clothes give off signals, you have probably been drinking a little earlier than usual. Look for the woman in the clothes, not at the clothes on the woman.

(4) Understand what is means if she is looking around a lot. If she's in her circle of friends and makes an effort to look at the guys passing by, you've got a potential pick-up. Mind you, you might have a group of women doing this all at once. Select the one that meets with your idea of fun and good talk. Use your commonsense. Sometimes you may be roped into engaging with all of them as they check you out for a friend in that group. Be obliging.

(5) React quickly if she looks bored or annoyed with her company. The guys she came with are belligerent and touching her and she has no out. This is your best situation to be the knight in shining armor. You don't even need visual contact! Just walk over there and say, "How'd you like to come sit with me/us?" or "There's an empty seat next to me if you need it." You can skip down to the conversation part if you're lucky enough to find one of these. Ask her what on earth she was discussing with those bullish guys and get her a good stiff drink.

2. Make eye contact. You've already established that she is available, so keep telling yourself that. This next step is key. If she looks at you and you look away nervously, good luck to you. You've already made a bad first impression. Keep a relaxed, flirtatious gaze. Don't stare and don't lock up and look like a psycho. Also don't flash a huge, fake grin. Just move your head however feels natural and smile a bit--whatever feels natural. If she looks away shyly, that's good. If she gives you a seductive stare, that's even better. If she looks away and looks freaked out, better find someone else.

3. Look away for a second or two to give her time to think about you. She has noticed that you're available and that you like her. She's thinking about whether she likes you back. Don't take too long. Between ten seconds and a minute. Whatever feels right. Take a deep breath, relax, think happy thoughts. She was intrigued by you, remember?

4. Clear your mind. Breathe. That oxygen is going to help you think on your toes and help you relax. Gulp it down politely. She may wonder if you are a fish otherwise.

5. Glance over at her again. If she's chatting with her friends and still has her eye on you, congratulations. If she's looking at you comfortably, congratulations. If she purposely avoids eye contact, she either has myopia or she just hasn't felt the spark her end. Approach somebody else or offer to put her glasses back on.

6. Keep eye contact as you approach. Don't stare and don't trip over anything as you walk toward her. Stay relaxed and focused. Have a sense of purpose. Don't let all the people who are in your way discourage you. Remember, we have already established that she likes you. If you blow it now, it's all your fault. Although, never underestimate the endearing quality of a guy who trips over in pursuit of love. It can be retold for years afterwards and who knows, it may just end in marriage.

7. Smile casually and say something casual. Remember, you are a stranger. There is no need to say something elaborate but at least form the words clearly - don't mumble or spit in anticipation. Here are some ideas:

(1) "Hey."

(2) "How's it going?"

(3) "Hey there."

(4) "Hey what's up?"

8. Regardless of what her response is, ask a question next. The purpose of this question is to get her to laugh. Say something benign or even daft:

(1) "What are you up to?" This one is a favorite. If she says "nothing," try one of the others, but if she wants to play along she'll say "dancing" () cue laugh() or "drinking" () cue laugh()

(2) "What's your name?"

(3) "Where's your boyfriend?" This is a good question to ask if she's been talking to a guy that she's obviously not interested in. Do you see the pattern? Humor!

(4) Or even "What's your sign?" She just may crack up

(5) If you are talented enough to think up your own humorous question that fits the scenario better, go for it. But please, if you don't have a rapacious wit, stick to the suggestions above.

9. Get on with it. You're on your own, so have a decent conversation. If you're not good at it, you will never get a pickup (unless you look like a model). Most guys can't get past the above part, so you already have a head start. Remember, if you fail at this point, it's all your fault. She doesn't really have a boyfriend and she isn't really that busy. You just didn't impress her with your conversation, that's all. Get better and try again.


1. Consider going to the bar with a few friends. It's best if your group has a few females. It adds a little mystery ("I wonder if he's dating any of them?") and shows that you are a normal, social human being.

2. Remember to stay relaxed and comfortable.

3. Have a few questions and comments planned out. If you are nervous, stumbling around for what to say next can be haphazard at best. Make sure they're good ones too. Good conversation questions are casual and a little shallow.

4. The type of questions you ask are important. The key is to be in the moment. Avoid talking about work or school if possible. If you've talked to her for a while, a good question is "what do you do?" It just sounds less invasive than "where do you work?" or "what do you do for a living?" Plus, what if she's a student or unemployed? Don't be too inquisitive about it. No one wants to talk about work details at a bar.

5. Also don't ask questions that you know the answer to. Are you interested in hearing her say "yes" or interested in what's going on in her mind? If you ask questions like these she will quickly lose respect for you:

o "Are you having a good time?"

o "So you're hanging out with the girls tonight?"

o "So you like dancing?

o "So you like [whatever drink she has in her hand]?"

6. Don't be too serious. You are out at a bar. She didn't come here to meet serious guys, she wants to have fun. In bars/clubs, serious guys stick out in a bad way. She won't want to be seen with you.

7. If you sense that the girl is smart or witty, it can help a great deal to establish yourself as one of her kind with some offbeat comedy. In one Seinfeld episode, Jerry brags of picking up a girl with the line, "So you know I'm the one responsible for those crop circles in England."

8. You are trying to keep the conversation flowing naturally. If it starts to feel like an interview, it's best to abort mission.

9. Be funny. This will break the ice, make you more attractive, and make her like you more as a person. If you are too nervous to think of funny stuff to say, you're going to have a tough time pulling it off.

10. Girls are almost always better at conversation than guys, but there's the possibility that you cannot get the flow going with her. If she's giving one word answers and there is no connection, it's best not to pursue. Even if it is "her fault" in your mind, she doesn't see it that way.

11. Watch Wedding Crashers for some excellent ideas. That movie is full of great pick-up ideas. It's not recommended that you actually crash weddings though. Other movies with bar pick-ups are How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days and Lost in Translation. Don't do exactly what they do, just observe the flow in conversation between two strangers.

12. Read Cosmo, Vogue and Esquire magazines. Women's opinions of things tend to be quite consistent. Look closely and you will find what to say, what not to say, what to come off as, etc. Besides bedroom recommendations, these magazines often have articles telling women what to look for in a man, and many women listen.

13. Don't use filler phrases! They make you sound unsure of yourself.

o "I'm sorry, I couldn't help but notice..."

o "I was wondering..."

o "So..."

o "Well..."

o "Has anyone ever told you that..."

o "...or something like that."

o " know?"

14. Dress well, but more importantly, dress appropriately. Don't wear your clubbing shirt to a college watering hole and don't wear a t-shirt and sneakers to the club.

15. If you ever end up as the third wheel out at a bar, don't fret. This is an excellent pickup situation if the girl you're with is willing to assist you. Girls hold each other's opinions rather highly and she will have an easier time getting the object of your affection to come over. Some girls may view this as wimpy or a cop-out, so make sure that when you meet her, you dispel that suspicion immediately.

16. If she's with a group of friends, engage them early. Most women will use the approval of their friends to judge you. Sometimes groups with one or two guys are easiest to approach because you can chat the guys up first, then find out how they know each other.

17. It's ok to be nervous--its not ok to hide it, because she'll know anyway. Be comfortable enough with a little nervousness that you can push through it into a decent conversation.

18. Most women want to attract you with something besides looks. If she's hot, every other chump has already told her that. So try to elicit her values or something personal and then reward her with a statement of interest for something besides her looks. So when she says she loves dogs, you can say "Wow, so you're compassionate AND sexy".


1. Don't force anything.

2. Do not use routines that are not congruent with your image.

3. You are going to get shot down from time to time. That's life. Pick yourself up and try again.


How to get laid in the next month or two

Have you ever seen the show "Bullshit" by Penn and Teller? If not, go check out Youtube or Google. It's fantastic. Highly recommended is the one on absintence.

I've been watching a good bit of that show lately, because it's well-researched as well as entertaining, which is rare. On one of the shows, they talk about diet supplements and fancy exercise gadgets and the rest. And they make a clear point - It doesn't work. The only thing that works for getting healthy is good diet + exercise + generally mostly healthy lifestyle.

You can find lots of these gut-check type programs on dieting. There may be 10,000 "magic cures", but there's at least 5,000 "ok, it's not easy, but here's what really works..." reminders from good people.

And there really isn't that for the community - until now.

Here's my post on how to get laid in the next month or two. This post does not maximize your chances of "getting really good at pickup" - in fact, it does the opposite. I'm going to try to cut out as much "practice time" from you as possible, so you're going to miss valuable opportunities to work on facets of your game. I'm going to try to just give you basic advice to get girls respecting you quickly, liking you, getting invested in you, hanging out with you, and then - you having sex. On the way, I'm going to glaze over intracicies that would let you get many more girls with practice, and take a lot of the theory out of this.

This will be grunt work.

Fun grunt work, but grunt work. If you do this, you'll be getting laid soon. All of this will be simple, but most of this will be hard. Like diet and exercise, many if not most people will not be able to succeed at this. But if YOU want to have sex with a girl like you in the near future, this will let you do it. And YOU are capable of it. I believe so much in the power of the human spirit to accomplish anything. I believe in you.

We begin.

1. Enroll in a gym in the next 2-3 days. Do not sign a one year commitment. They'll try to get you to. Smile, say you're only going to be in the area one month right now, but you might do the commitment later. They'll ask for 3x as much as they'd want per month with the commitment. Keep smiling, and telling them you'd like to pay the "good rate" without the commitment. Be very polite and enthusiastic. Eventually, they'll barter down or come close.

2. Begin working out at least 3 times a week. I don't really care what kind of exercise program you do, as long as you push iron and do it in a safe way. Make sure you get compound exercises into your program though, especially squats. Full body workout every time is probably the easiest at first while you're learning, but I like splits better.

3. Redevote time in your life that you would spend on pickup materials educating yourself about diet and exercise. Start with this forum: It's another online forum, so if you've been spending too much time reading here, it's easier to spend too much time reading there than it would be to say, cut the 'net down. So read there too much. Stay away from all their sections about supplements, and spend a lot of time learning about nutrition, doing the exercises correctly, and setting up your workout routines in a smart way.

4. Find an activity that you really like that's damn interesting to yourself and that you think other people think is cool. Odds are you've already done one in your life and lost touch with it. If not, do that thing you've always thought about doing. It doesn't matter if what you're doing is actually "cool" or not - totally subjective - it's just important you're comfortable with it and like talking about it.

5. Go pick up a couple books IN PRINT about non-seduction social science. Synergistic stuff, on topics like diplomacy, management, or sales. A tried and true would be like Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence» People, more recent things that would be good would be something like Winning by Jack Welch or Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi. Stay away - for now - from books on seduction itself. When you're reading something in a synergy field, you'll be able to have epiphanies without any "pressure" to apply stuff that doesn't make sense to you.

6. (but this really should've been #2) Go get clothes that are fit you well. That means very, very few men should even wear an American sized medium. In the USA, clothes are cut very large. Right now, I'm wearing an X-Small shirt, and I'm 5'10 170 lbs. Such is the American shirt. Get your clothes too small, not too big. Also get stuff that is reasonably cool. This has already been written about by me among others ad nauseum. Look in the fastseduction archives for "you must look to get laid" by me originally, and read the whole thread if you like. The whole thread is really excellent. Get the style under control.

Alright, the above is simple, non-seduction stuff that gets you the best chance to get laid. If you're spending one hour a day reading internet pickup material, you could instead be spending 1 hour a day in the gym, 3 days a week. 1 hour a day, twice a week on your new hobby. And two days reading a book that will teach you without pressuring you to do something specific, or making you go against the grain for yourself.

Now, here is how you will approach and pick up girls:

For starters, if you've done the above - you're going to be feeling more confident, acting a bit more aggressive, and naturally having a bit more to talk about. It's a lot easier to pick up when you feel good about yourself and you have interesting things going on. Sure, you can learn how to fake like you're interesting if you're boring, but it's actually HARDER and TAKES LONGER than becoming an interesting person.

No lie.

So, if you've done 1-6 already, you're in good shape. Here's what's next.

7. When you approach girls, you will always be POSITIVE, and aim to make them FEEL GOOD and make yourself FEEL GOOD. You won't expect anything, capice? You're not trying to be goal-oriented, like "lay this one" or some such. Your goal - upon approaching - feel good, make her feel good. Okay? This has a lot of things going for it, and I won't list them all, but here's a couple

*You won't feel sleazy.
*You won't act sleazy.
*You'll be able to get lots of "successes" even if you're not getting laid right away.
*If a girl is rude, it's not a blow to your ego. You STILL try to make her feel good, and excuse yourself politely. Or you make a joke about it if one comes to you. This is what guys who are actually successful with women do. If she's not fun, you leave because she's not fun and not making you feel good. And your head is held high.

8. What do all guys who get laid have in common?

They have lots of fun. Regardless of if you are or aren't having fun, you should look like you are - So smile a BIG SMILE whenever you're out. If you feel cheesey - good. I STILL, years later, think I look cheesey when I put my biggest smile on, and I still get 10x the results when smiling. It's empirically proven, yo.

9. When you approach, make it in a fashion that shows interest in her. The nice thing about this is that you won't screw up with girls that like you because of the way you look and move around the room. There's a way to play the get-her-chasing card, and it can be good game. Just... the learning curve on it is a little steeper. Want to get laid in the next month or two? Be generally complimentary.

10. Specifically, there's five types of openers: Genuine interest, implicit direct, situational indirect, true indirect, nonverbal/playful. You want to use mostly the first two kinds. Genuine interest openers are non-cliche openers that express interest in something you genuinely like about her. A default format for one that always sounds spontaneous is:

"I saw you (doing what you're doing) and I have to say (what you noticed and like about her look)."

It's a really, really easy formula, but ALWAYS sounds spontaneous and uncanned, never like a pickup line. Fill in the first blank with her activity.

"I saw you standing here and...
"I saw you sitting here and...
"I saw you as you were walking by and...

"I saw you leaning up against the bar and...
Fill in the second blank about what you like about her.

...I have to say you have the prettiest hair I've ever seen."
...I have to say you have a really cool funky style that I dig."
...I have to say you look fantastic."
...I have to say you have the most dangerous walk I've ever seen on a girl."

Whatever you think. You can even find one compliment that you really like and always fill in the second blank with that.

"I saw you (doing what you're doing) and I have to say you look really beautiful."

If you want to get laid in the next 30-60 days, this opener will work. The fact is, it's harder to screw up than complicated, game-intense openers. If you've got the testosterone flowing from your workouts, tight cool clothing, you're smiling, and you've got interesting stuff going on in your life, this will work no problem.

The first part of what you're doing, btw, is pacing her, and it also makes you sound spontaneous since and very situationally relevant. The simple first part "I saw you..." is more important than the compliment.

Also I know a lot of guys can handle groups where they're bored and looking around, but can't handle groups where people are having lots of fun. Try this derivation of the above - "Hey, I saw y'all here laughing and cracking up - and I've gotta say, you guys look like the most fun group of people here." Remember, big smile. Then introduce yourself to everyone, chat for 5-10 minutes, leave for 5-10 minutes, and come back.

Actually, I'll explain what to right after opening... right now.

11. After opening, introduce yourself to everyone, chat for 5-10 minutes, leave for 5-10 minutes, and come back.

Just kidding. Well half-kidding. Here's the deal.

*Introduce yourself RIGHT AWAY, ALMOST ALWAYS. There's a lot of high-level advantages to not introducing yourself right away, especially on the compliance side. If you're out to start a cult, never introduce yourself. But if you want to get laid very soon, introduce yourself right away. The #1 thing this does is lets people know you enough that you'll get some respect later, instead of being "just another guy in the club". Put this way - You're far less likely to catch flak or disrespect if you're introduced to everyone, which makes things simpler and leads to more sex sooner, if your goal is to get real results in the near future.

*After you talk to people for a while, don't try to suck the life out of the group and stick like glue to them. But when you leave, it's VERY IMPORTANT that you don't say anything that sounds like a blowoff line. Most guys who aren't getting laid don't know how to leave without sounding like he's telling the girls to piss off, because whenever he's had girls leave they're often... well, you know.

So, when you leave, use something like this: "Hey, I'm going to go scout around for a while, but I'll catch you in a bit."


"nice meeting you"
"get a drink"
"meet my friends"

Any of these are okay... sometimes... but avoiding them won't hurt you. The problem with those 4 things are they're commonly used blow-offs. There's a way to say any one of those, especially if it's true, but "scout around" is non-traditional so it won't sound like a blowoff, it's honest so they won't get freaked out if they see you walking around without looking for you if they really like you, AND THE GIRL WON'T WAIT FOR YOU AND FEEL DEJECTED WHEN YOU DON'T COME BACK. This actually happens more than you'd think, but girls are better at playing it off and won't bring it up like a guy will. So go off to scout around.

*When you come back, greet them like old friends. Don't say, "You again!" or anything like that. That makes you non-friends. Just walk up, like you would to friends, and say "What's happening". Or something along those lines - Very familiar, nonchalant.

The formula is simple if people are unfriendly or uncool. Don't come back to them. Still politely excuse yourself with "I'm going to go scout around a bit. Maybe I'll catch you in a bit."

12. Get compliance.

This is one of the most important steps. Do lots of this -

Push the envelope, make her work. Try to get her to do things for you. Simple things. "Here, hold this, I'll be right back" and hand her your drink. Go to the men's room. Come back. Retrieve your drink. Thank her for holding it.

Drink sips of her drink. Move her around the club to meet people. Have her introduce you to people. Et cetra. Make her DO STUFF. What stuff isn't that important. It can be refined in time. Just make her DO ANYTHING, with one quick exception...

13. Don't be a horndog. If you NEED to get laid on any given night, your chances of getting laid go down drastically. Working out is great in that it makes you dominant and more aggressive, but tires you out so you don't get that burning horny-got-to-do-something. Your body thinks you just killed a buffalo, so it cuts you some slack. Mighty nice of it.

So don't try to grind her. Don't try to make out with her. Et cetra. We're going to escalate smoothly, and I'll show you how momentarily. This will cost you some physicality (grinding, makeouts, etc.) and it will cost you some lays over the course of your life if you NEVER know when to go for it. But if you want to get laid in the next 30-60, easily, then lay off the instant gratification a bit.


This will get you laid like crazy, if you can actually do it.

From now on, make your goal to become friends with girls. Treat like friends. Say the following lines liberally:

"You're such a good friend."
"It's nice to become friends with you."
"I feel like a better person around you."
"You bring out the best in me."
"I dig your friends - they're my kind of people."
"I'm glad you got along so well with my friends, that's really cool and important to me." (after she meets your friends, regardless of if she gets along with them or not)
"It's nice to have friends like you."
"I feel really comfortable around you."
"Oh, you've GOT to meet my friend (female name). You and her would get along FAMOUSLY."

Guys are afraid of winding up in LJBF land. They don't realize who gets put there - loser horndogs who try to escalate at the wrong times. Do girls who are hanging out with cool guys, who are super-chill and having lots of fun, tell the guy, "Let's just be friends" No! Never! LJBF is a direct result of shitty escalation. Trying to actually become her friend will never result in LJBF.

At the same time, treat her like a buddy. Call her sometimes just to call her. Shoot her random fun texts. Listen to her. Actually listen. Learn about her. Do fun stuff with her like you'd do with your friends. If you play video games with your friends, invite her to play video games with you. If you do jello shots with your friends, invite her to do jello shots with you and the gang. Do whatever you do with your friends - with her.

15. Whenever you're having fun with a girl (and you should always cut and run whenever you're not having fun for an extended period) your goal is to keep having fun for as long as logistically possible. So until one of you has something that stops you two from being together, keep hanging out. Don't try to leave at a high point (there are advantages to doing it, sometimes, but for now stick with spending as much good time with her as possible).

This doesn't mean stay in the same place with her. Move her around. It's ESPECIALLY important that if you're in a bar or nightclub that you leave BEFORE last call. There's times not to, but 9/10 times, especially in clubs, the vibe gets a buzzsaw taken to it when the lights come on. Leave before that happens, with her, to get pizza or hit a diner or an after-hours joint or party or whatever.

16. If and when logistics prohibit going further, THEN you can take contact information. But here's the deal - Numbers aren't worth ANYTHING. What you're looking to do is MEET THE GIRL again. So, you first suggest an activity to do together, then when she agrees, dictate how to get her contact info.

YOU decide, you're the man, show some balls and leadership and delegate. So don't say "How will we get a hold of each other?" because she's going to suggest stupid stuff like myspace at least 20% of the time. So say, "Wow I'm having a blast with you. (her: me too) A cool new exhibit just opened up at PSOne and I've been meaning to check it out. You should come with. (her: sounds fun) Cool, got a number I can reach you at?"

After you get her number, do this always: Here, I'm going to hit dial on my phone so my number shows up on your caller ID. Hit dial on your phone, but DO NOT RAISE IT TO YOUR EAR. Just hold it in front of you. She'll probably take her phone out of her purse, then make sure you can spell each other's names.

17. Text her before you ever call her.

A good text is fun, short, and doesn't ask for a response or ask a question. I've been texting a girl back and forth on and off for a week now and we haven't called each other yet. She texted me "hi hon. whats up".

I wrote back, "My ex gf just emailed me saying she misses me and theres a hole in her heart since i left. poor girl. dont know what to write. :\"

This is actually true in my life, and just an example. But yeah, she called after that, and that first thing she asked was, "Who broke up with who?" Nosy fucking girls. ("I broke up with her." "Why?" "I don't know." "What do you mean you don't know?!? You don't know why you broke up with a girl?" "Well... We do stuff for lots of reasons y'know? I guess... I thought we'd both be happier if we weren't together." - was the rest of the beginning of the conversation, for the curious)

Make sure you text her within 2 days of meeting her, tops. Same day or early next day are both good.

18. Send her texts once a day until she responds. Skip a day here and there. If she doesn't respond after 5-6 texts across 10 days, wait a week and text again.

19. Once she texts you back, keep it short and sweet some more. Don't answer her questions, write what you want to write. Make it vaguely relevant to the conversation. Or even not.

20. When you talk, talk as friends for a bit. Don't try to make plans until at least the second time you talk to her on the phone, unless she's really hurting to or asking about it.

21. When you make plans, it should fall into one of two categories - Laid back hanging out, or her tagging along with you. Remember Vinny's Three C's of Dating:

*Cheap: Inexpensive
*Convenient: For you, in terms of time and effort
*Conversation: Be able to converse during it

That pretty much rules out dinner and a movie... Make all your dates such that if she doesn't show up at all, it's no inconvenience and doesn't even suck.

Remember to maintain all the earlier stuff on your date. Be positive, treat her as a friend, make her do things and get compliance from her.

Now... you're in good shape.

At this point, you're a person that'll appeal to at least some women, you can meet women in social environments, and you know what to do on dates. You're being laid back, you're not pushy, you're very chill. Zenlike. In fact, you're being precisely Zen - In the moment. You're not focused on getting tail or acting like a loser who hasn't been laid since the 70's.

Here's how to escalate.

22. The first thing you need before you EVER try to escalate is what's called "incidental kino". There's, incidentally, three good kinds of kino - Playful, protective, and incidental. They're all fairly self-explanatory, and all have different good uses. But only one is necessary. This is - Incidental.

The idea behind incidental kino is that it's just that - INCIDENTAL. You're not TRYING to make it happen, it just "does". Couples have this all the time. When they sit next to each other, they're very close to each other. They're touching by virtue of their proximity. But neither of them is consciously trying to do it.

Some examples of incidental kino:

*Knees locked together as you sit on bar stools
*Brushing up against each other as you walk down the street
*Sharing an umbrulla
*Lining up your head next to hers and your shoulder touching hers as you point out something in the distance
Sitting closely next to each other on a couch

The fact is, if a girl isn't comfortable enough to be very close to you, she's not comfortable enough to kiss you 95% of the time. So don't "lunge in" to kiss her. It'll freak her out, and rightfully so. (note: While drunk as hell in London, a mixed race young hot Korean girl with great breasts that I REALLY wanted to fuck lunged in to kiss me like this - I said to her, I kid you not, "I, uhhh, no, it's not like that. Let's just be friends" Then I was like, "Damn, why did I do that!" The answer - Because I was SHOCKED AND SURPRISED - it's why girls do it too guys)

So, get incidental kino first. "Invade her space" a bit. Do it right on open. Be a little closer than most strangers would be. Touch her a little here and there, but the idea is for it to look like just happening. If touch breaks off, no problem.

But before you try to kiss, you should be SO CLOSE that you can simply put your finger on her chin, turn her head, and move only a couple inches (a few centimeters). No more. If you're not that close - or she's not comfortable getting that close - you're not ready yet.

23. Closing dates.

If you've been doing everything right, you've been making friends with girls, and they think you're cool and like you. They're comfortable touching you a bit.

Now, just get it somewhere comfortable and relaxing conducive to escalation. The answer - A closing date.

A "closing date" is a date that winds up at your place or her place. There's lots of ways to do this, but absolutely one of the best of all-times is to cook dinner together.

It lets her work and cook, you're doing it together and it's nice, and there's lots of other advantages. After dinner, lounge on the couch together, put on a movie. If it's at your place, have a blanket on or near your coach that looks like it belongs there. Ideally a big fluffy one (blankets are conducive to incidental kino, and makes the girl feel more comfortable being close to you and doing things).

After you get the incidental kino - on the coach probably - kiss. Enjoy the kiss. After you finish the first kiss, you MUST compliment her on her kissing (girls are notoriously insecure). If she's not a terrible kisser, one of these two will always apply -

"Your lips are so soft" or
"Wow you're a good kisser"

24. You're kissing. Nice.

Now, most men try to go "Base to base" - First base is kissing, second base is getting her shirt off, third base is getting down her pants, and a home run...

This is wrong. All women are different. What you need to do is "kinesthetic sequencing" - This is where you find three spots on the woman's body that turn her on without turning her off. You rotate between them, and then try to go further. If she says no to what you try to go, you back between your three spots, then try to escalate again.

Some women feel insecure about different areas of their body, or have bad memories about them. A lot of women with big breasts have had a lot of guys in high school trying to grope their breasts. So they might not let you take their bra off until after you start having sex.

So look for areas that turn her on, then try to go further. Be creative. Look around different parts of her body.

When you go to undress, it's important that one article of clothing comes off. This is almost "symbolic" - oftentimes the girl won't let any clothing off, but once one article is off, all bets are off. No pun intended, strange but true.

There's two tricks for this. First, at your place, you could have take her shoes off at the door. This will make her more comfortable as well as shorter relative to you if she was wearing heels, and be the "symbolic article". At her place, kick your shoes at some place.

As for clothes actually flying off, if you're under the blanket or you've taken it to the bed, and she's saying no, go to take your belt off. She'll say no. Then you say, "Belt's cutting into my side... taking it off..." and just do it, then fling it off to the side of the bed/couch like you would an article you just took off for sex.

A couple other things. If she says "no sex" say, "Cool. I like just kissing and cuddling with you" with a warm smile. Same for any variation of that, like "we're not having sex tonight" or any such thing after you've started kissing (before you've started kissing, just say "okay" if she says that).

25. Some last things.

If on any particular day, the girl doesn't want to have sex, don't push her. Just chill. It'll come, and you show you respect her if you don't push and you actually like her. Be aggressive but not horny (the working out will help with this).

It's VERY OKAY if you start working out and getting your life in order for the wrong reason - to get women. You don't need to lie and say, "I'm going to hit the iron for me, rah rah rah." You're doing it to get laid. That's cool. That's why everyone starts. You'll grow to love it and do it for the "right reasons" later. For now, do it for the wrong reasons but do do it.

This is "how to get laid in 30-60 days". Not "how to get laid tomorrow". In two weeks - yes two weeks - of hitting the iron, you'll feel stronger and walk more proud and taller. If you take your time and don't pressure yourself with girls, you'll be more likely to lay them. This gives you your best shot of getting laid.

After you sleep with a half dozen girls or so using the simple techniques here, come back and learn the crazy stuff. Get "good at the game". Learn techniques and finesses and everything else. But if you're a guy that doesn't want to sell out who you are, use a bunch of crazy stuff, and wait a year+ to see results, go simple like this. The first six notes make you the kind of guy that's going to appeal to at least a few women. It's a lot easier to get laid being a guy women want to have sex with instead of a guy they don't. Trust me on that one, because I actually put in the time and got good at doing it the painful way, and was apalled at how easy it was to get laid if you're the kind of guy a woman wants.

It does take some time though. This isn't a magical fix. Like anything else, the real answer is hard work. Hey, I like to keyboard jockey it up here with acronyms and theories and whatever else too, and if you're here for entertainment purposes, there's a lot of entertainment here. But if you want to get laid in the next two months - and get laid a lot subsequently if you can get this down - here you go. You got this one, homie. Let me know how it goes.